[Discussion] Resources’s drop rate upon death

Discussion in 'Discussions' started by Diamay, Apr 19, 2018.

Do we need to increase resources’s drop rate upon death?

  1. Yes, depending of karma, x2;

    3 vote(s)
    20.0%
  2. Yes, depending of karma, x3;

    4 vote(s)
    26.7%
  3. Yes, independent of karma, like N %;

    7 vote(s)
    46.7%
  4. No, let it be as it is;

    1 vote(s)
    6.7%
  5. No, just make resources with less weight and reduce amount of caravans.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Diamay

    Diamay Count

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    Jan 17, 2018
    Soon there will be release of article about crafting system. Therefore, we would like to make small voting and check the results as we think your mind will be changed after the article itself.

    So, what’s up?

    1) Here you’ll find drop rate of items upon death in accordance with karma level.
    2) Character has restrictions on weight carried. That very restriction depends on character’s stamina (still, weight cap is about 120 kg).
    3) Player will have to carry tons of resources (from node to refining workshop and then to city or castle).

    Mounts and caravans

    So, baggage animals will be available from the start (without primal opportunity to saddle them up). Those animals can carry up to 4000kg (with 200kg at minimal).

    The baggage mount can be stolen by another character (the better mount is - the more time one must spend to steal it - from 15 to 60 seconds).

    Those mounts are primal aspect of ROG’s “caravan” system.

    Weight of resources and how to carry

    However, you know, that player can carry resources in his own inventory. In this case, if character dies with high level of karma - there is just minimal risk to lose goods.

    So it all depends on weight of resources. It isn’t possible to carry too much of resources in pockets even with skilled character.

    On the other hand - excessive weight of resources means lots of grind, right? Just imagine how you’ve reached the node and gather 1 block of stone with 100kg weight, and then you need to carry 1 block it to your cart - repeat, repeat.

    Should we, for instance, decrease this very stone’s weight? Or should we increase character’s carrying ability? Nope, then caravan system will be dead as risk of losing cargo always higher than carrying it on your own.

    And don’t forget that re-location within one continent is possible with teleports.

    So

    We can decrease weight of resources only if drop rate of losing items upon death will be increased in order to prevent death of caravan system.

    So, if drop rate of standard item from inventory (if karma is on high level) is 10%, then resource from the similar mesh will have 20% drop chance. Drop rate from stack is proportional.

    Second variant - we can make drop rate the same for all karma levels (30% for instance)?

    What do you think? Your thoughts? Let’s vote!

    But don’t forget that karma system is a tool that might suppress PK, so chance of getting goods from simple stranger will be kind of damage to our karma system.
     
  2. Kasteel

    Kasteel Главный по огню Patron Emissary ROG Club

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    Yes, the main thing is to find a middle ground between the chance of drops and the number of transferred resources.
     
  3. Kozzion

    Kozzion III degree of vocation

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    Apr 8, 2018
    The more loot the better!if the penalty is high of being a PK er then the reward should also be significent.
    We need wolves and we need sheep. And both has to be rightly punished/rewarded
     
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  4. Reelix

    Reelix III degree of vocation

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    Apr 26, 2018
    I think that droprate shouldn’t be attached to karma to kill people without any accordance to it’s level.
     
  5. Stellyus

    Stellyus III degree of vocation

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    Apr 26, 2018
    Meh. what’s the point to have high karma for crafter then? I don’t want to PvP everyone - wanna trade and enjoy the trade so game should benefit this kind of play also - your option forbids that. We should increase karma’s influence I think.
     
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  6. Reelix

    Reelix III degree of vocation

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    If you want to carry shit, take guard, lol. This is PvP game. and getting stuff there and back is for bots.
     
  7. Stellyus

    Stellyus III degree of vocation

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    Apr 26, 2018
    Maybe you right, but this goes to low level. But on cap or high lvl this may be the only way to get resources. General droprate allows big guilds to monopolize type of resources. but peaceful crafters with low droprate can prevent that.
     
  8. Reelix

    Reelix III degree of vocation

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    Apr 26, 2018
    How can drop’s rate prevent that?
     
  9. Stellyus

    Stellyus III degree of vocation

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    Apr 26, 2018
    Example for dumbass:
    Big guild puts guards around the node or mine and kills everyone, who exits it without donkey. If droprate is common and fixed (50% for instance), they will take resources from half of killed players. If droprate varies (from 10% to 50%), they’ll take less resources. This example illustrates how part of resources will stay independent on market.
     
  10. Morgast

    Morgast II degree of vocation

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    Apr 26, 2018
    Why can’t devs simply get rid of droprate of any resources ? But somehow make system where moving res without mount wouldn’t be convenient? Like, without mount you can take 100kg but to craft sword there is 200 kg needed.This will put risk vs system into work.
     
  11. Reelix

    Reelix III degree of vocation

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    I still think that this problem shouldn’t be solvbed via mechanics. Players should act by themselves as this is social mmo. If someone guards the mine, other players must take weapons and beat the shit our of guard. No?
     
  12. Stellyus

    Stellyus III degree of vocation

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    Yeah, but this isn’t connected with droprate - you can gather bros whenever you want in any situations. The questions is: Is it possible to fight monopoly without hard measures or fight. I know the game is about PvP, but the more way you find to solve issue, the better.
     
  13. Reelix

    Reelix III degree of vocation

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    Can agree, but here is the thing: If droprate will be fixed and guilds will try to monopolize resources, the whole situation will motivate players to solve the issue and find the way to alternative solution. If droprate will be low - I don’t think players will do anything. They’ll just go and do some other job.

    I think we miss one element - there are lots of classes like assassin and thief - they might have invisibility. Also - there are telepoorts how will they work? Can I teleport right from the mine?
     
  14. Stellyus

    Stellyus III degree of vocation

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    Apr 26, 2018
    Understood. But this is relative. I personally dunno how much time crafter will spend the time to move res. IF this will be common experience, fixed froprate is fine, but if only crafters do that, i would still propose droprate attached to Karma.
     
  15. Diamay

    Diamay Count

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    Jan 17, 2018
    Assassin will have invisibility for several minutes that can be used anytime. Thief will also have invisibility that works on night time only.

    There will be some abandoned teleports. They are free and can be found all over the world. Those teleports can move you anywhere - they can either move you if you are lucky or...kill, if you aren’t. Some of abandoned teleports will be placed near mines.
    And teleports to castles available for castle holder guilds.
     
  16. Reelix

    Reelix III degree of vocation

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    Okay, now I’m not so sure that my idea was the right one. Too many variables: teleports, invisibility and tons of factors I don’t know about.
     
  17. Stellyus

    Stellyus III degree of vocation

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    Well, at least now it is clear that monopoly can be fought with war monopoly :)
     
  18. Baeyer

    Baeyer Lumberjack ROG Club

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    Jan 21, 2020
    Honestly I'd like to see everything in your inventory drop but not your equipment. Perhaps really low karma could have occasional gear drop to help balance ganking. I enjoy the risk of knowing if I die I could lose everything in my caravan. This creates a need for hired guards and opportunity for mercenaries and reason for guilds to work together. However I am against full loot because who want's to lose all their progress and time they invested in gearing? Unless gear is cheap to craft and disposable kind of like in Darkfall.
     
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  19. Necromantic

    Necromantic III degree of vocation

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    Jan 12, 2020
    Honestly, I'm one of the old school people that would like everything dropping on death for everyone no matter their karma. Some people dropping less than others just doesn't seem realistic or immersive to me, it's either all or nothing. Punishments for "bad karma" can be dealt out in other effective ways that add more risks to bad behavior.

    I'm all for rules being set and enforced by players as much as possible. Maybe even systems for area dependent standing of characters and behaviors depending on the area and their rules. Karma is a bit too one-dimensional for that.

    So you could do things in a specific area without repercussions in that area but have punished actions that would not be punished in others. In other areas your standing might be different for those same actions though, no matter where you committed them. Basically local laws/rules against global actions - as long as they have been witnessed and reported in some way.

    Might be a bit too much for this topic though.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2020
  20. Filip

    Filip Bard

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    To put my 2 cents in, I played a lot of Linage 2, which also had a karma system. There,it was also based on your karma level, you would've dropped a certain percentage of what you were carrying (equipment or inventory stuff) depending on the karma level you currently had, which was influenced by the number of people you have pked(for instance the more people you PKed the more karma you would have gained per death and the more you would have dropped when being killed). BUT there was a way to be clear again, by killing mobs or being killed.
    Even though I searched I haven't found more information on the karma system, it seems there was a FAQ at some point but the link doesn't work anymore. So how exactly will it work? Once you went for bad karma is there a way to get back on the positive side? if so how?
     
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