[Discussion] Monetization

Discussion in 'Discussions' started by Diamay, Aug 6, 2018.

How do you see the monetization of MMORPG after the release?

  1. Traditional P2P (subscription fee without the opportunity to hand over GT (game time);

  2. Modified P2P (as plexes etc.) *tell us more*

  3. F2P *provide shop examples*

  4. Hybrids (freemium etc.) *describe in more detail*

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Diamay

    Diamay Count

    Jan 17, 2018

    Last comments and displeasure of the players are puzzling for me (and the team in general).

    Therefore we are very interested in your opinion about monetization of ROG and MMORPG in general.

    In the foreword I won’t go into statistics of differentiation of player preferences by characteristics: one or the other psychological type, geography, social situation, age.

    But I want to describe our approved version (you can change it through voting after early access)

    1) B2P:
    The game starts on b2p through Steam, the cost can vary depending on regions (as I promised at the beginning for Russian Federation and CIS the game would cost about 1000 rubles);

    2) Way from “Early access” to “Release”:
    It will take us about three years. Together we should think carefully and decide what would be better for the project regarding the monetization during this period. The data of voting will be calculated approximately in a half of a year after the start of Early Access. Without statistics there is too much theory in the unknown world (ROG is not typical clone of MMORPGs, it has many features, that can boost or reduce the game popularity).

    3) P2P:
    Approved model (before the voting).
    Approval relates to recent releases of different foreign MMORPG, that surprised our team not less than game community. We don’t want any hints or suspicions that ROG can follow a similar path and become a typical product of Russian publisher.
    To put it mildly, such position creates difficulties for the project. It’s no secret that investors are interested in cost-effectiveness of investments and the flow of funds as opposed to some ‘principled and dreamy position of developers’.

    Attention! Players that bought the game during the early access later would get full compensation of the cost with game time.
    Indeed, during the early access the game will be free. If the player starts to play during the early access it will be free after the release.

    4) Variants of P2P:
    Variant I.
    At the moment we consider the model similar to the old EVE online plexes: game time could be hand over among the players. You can buy game time and gave it to the other players.
    Variant II.
    We can separate a part of customization (armour and weapon), real estate renting from the game currency adding it to the ‘plexes’ to reduce the game time cost.

    These are not the exhaustive variants of P2P modification to reduce monthly payment making it below average.

    5) My attitude towards F2P:
    F2P isn’t inherently bad.
    F2P as monetization model doesn’t ‘kill’ the games. As well as firearm doesn’t kill people,people kill other people with firearms.
    Games most frequently die from the greed of publishers and investors (often rolled into one). It’s hard to imagine a team, devoting a few years of their lives to the project and putting their talents to work, that want to turn a game into a donate garbage. An equally difficult to imagine an independent team that is capable to create an ambitious project within a reasonable time frame.

    As well as firearms in defending, F2P model could not only save the project life but also make MMORPG better, increasing the number of players and variety of psychological types.

    The first rule of ROG, that has been and will be the first and foremost -
    the lack of even indirect P2W shop where a player or a guild can buy an advantage on the battlefield (items, potions, tactical objects) or get game currency, resources and other game benefits.

    In case the players will choose F2P, the ROG shop follows the next concept (besides the social elements):
    to reduce the gap in the speed of gaining experience and convenience between the players that spend 40+ hours in the game (including drivering) and players spending only 10-20 hours per week.

    We didn’t aim to work out the F2P model, that’s why we didn’t have an indicative list of goods. But if you are interested in our view for the shop, we will create the list. As you understand, according to these principles it is very hard to monetize F2P project :)

    Totally forgot: there NEVER will be no customization that doesn’t fit the LORE or setting, turning a tank into a shrimpy beggar in rags xD

    Actually, the voting shows your opinion about monetization:
    The variants are clear, feel free to create and modify the hybrids (as freemium), share your thoughts.
  2. Van

    Van III degree of vocation Patron ROG Club

    Aug 3, 2018
    The system I personally favor is traditional P2P without in-game sub-time trading, ideally coupled with some trial-account style of access to the game for new people to check it out in a limited fashion before subbing (because people are reluctant to go in subbing immediately upon discovering the game/wanting to try it <this is mostly for post-launch as I imagine this game will garner initial support throughout alpha/beta/early acess>). I am open to strict P2P personally as I believe a sub fee is the most ideal system for ensuring player success or failure being influenced exclusively by activities in-game, while still supporting the game. If F2P is the system the game goes with though, I would encourage looking at the F2P model developed by Turbine for Lord of the Rings Online as I think it's probably one of the most fair to both sides of any existent F2P model in an MMO, operating primarily on the 'can use money to save time, but can ultimately get anything you can get on the store with in-game efforts as well' sort of principle, it has hybridization elements too in that you can still sub for a variety of benefits like bundled temporary access to content and a minor amount of monthly store-points (all but one - access to a pair of PvP areas - obtainable for free if someone were to put in the time to grind enough store-points in-game).
    • Like! Like! x 1
  3. Selzyr

    Selzyr III degree of vocation ROG Club

    Dec 2, 2018
    Recently I got an E-mail regarding Reign of Guilds, did a quick read up on the game and to put it simply


    Now onto the subject at hand, Monetization

    P2P that's my base opinion(Im based on EU/UK btw) altho, I understand what you said (Diamay) regarding F2P, and I totally agree, F2P isn't bad per-say, its how people been doing it over the years that...in some cases, its REALLY bad.

    Now, onto my idea of F2P

    F2P this idea would only work if people where to expect this and only this, very close to what PoE(Path of Exile) does atm, but a tinyyy bit different.

    F2P from the get go
    Expansions on a personal stash(Bank) people would start with 2 tabs with a set amount of slots where they can deposit, they could obtain more stash slots(bank slots) from the cash shop.
    Guild Bank stash's (Bank's) would work similar to the personal stash's (Bank's) 2/3 slots with a set amount of slots, where's the Guild Master could obtain more(and of course the guild master could set permissions to the members of whom can touch what tabs on the stash(bank))
    Cosmetics(AND ONLY cosmetics)

    Now how would cosmetics WORK on a PvP based game you ask? quite simple to be honest!

    Recipes/Manuals(I have little information how crafting works on RoG so Im not 100% sure if this will make sense in the scale of how things are implemented currently or to be implemented in the future)

    Player "A" buys a recipe/manual from the cash shop, that recipe can be used multiple times or sold(special appearances) that recipe/manual, lets say is for blacksmithing, that appearance is ONLY related to blacksmithed armors of that specific type.(depending of the material use, colors could change)

    This way, people could customize their characters however they want, and the developers could create not only cool things for the base game but for those that are willing to go the extra mile to support them.

    This is my idea of F2P done well, no P2W items whatsoever(since the items would have to be created by players, you would be only paying for appearances/vanity, and of course this would work on weapons and tailored items or leatherworked items)
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  4. Weilan

    Weilan Bard

    Dec 13, 2019
    I would suggest 2 options:

    1. B2P like ESO - you buy the base game and you get like the spine (or skeleton) of the game and you can play what you bought free forever. If you want to buy the muscles, skin and other tissue, (or DLCs and Chapters/Expansions), you need to pay extra for each one of them. A Chapter/Expansion can cost $20 or $30 and a DLC (with game content and story and new zones and quests, like in ESO, of course) can cost like $15 or $10.

    2. F2P like Path of Exile where the only items in the cash shop are cosmetics, mounts and pets. Cosmetics that don't affect the gameplay, pets that don't affect the gameplay and mounts that are just as good as regular mounts that people can acquire without paying, just shinier, and the only advantage is that if you pay, you just skip the grind.

    Another addition to the cash shop could be additional inventory space, which should work like in WoW - you loot bags and you put them on your belt and your inventory space increases. In WoW you have cheap bags with little space that drop from mobs, you get as rewards from quests and some are cheap enough to buy from the Auction House that other players either looted or crafted with professions. And there are expensive bags with lots of space which can only be crafted by people who dedicated a lot of time in increasing their profession to the maximum and grinded the ingredients needed by either gathering them from the world or buying some or all of them from the Auction House.


    The downside for F2P is that a lot of human trash like griefers, farmers, bots and assholes will join for free and it could ruin the community. Theupside of this is that a lot of people will play the game, and if the game is good like Path of Exile, people will buy from the cash shop and the game will prosper and the developers will get filthy rich and players will be happy that the game gets polished and gets new content on a regular basis.

    The downside of B2P is that not many people will join the game and could result in the game being barren. The reason for this is that almost every indie MMORPG in the last 5-6 years goes the route of B2P or subscription based and many people are suspicious of this practice as many such indie projects take the money and bail or just become frivolous and lose their sight and their values and the games become trash (like Shroud of the Avatar, Legends of Aria, Gloria Victis, Life is Feudal MMO, Albion Online) and lose players and then become F2P as a last resort, but it's too late. The upside of this is that there will be a close-knit small community similar to Project Gorgon, but it won't grow much and people seeing 200 players online at peak hours will be discouraged to invest into this.


    For me a Subscription P2P model is the stupidest idea as it's inferior to B2P in a sense that you not only have to buy the base game, but buy game time every month, which is

    1. too expensive and
    2. too audacious and arrogant

    Games such as this will be the MMORPG Pantheon, and I think their subscription model will be the death of them as no many people care about to invest this much in a questionable indie MMORPG.
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    Last edited: Dec 13, 2019
  5. wain

    wain Count Benefactor Emissary ROG Club

    Feb 28, 2019
    Hi there,
    Gloria Victis, isn't trash =p...Love to play it sometimes...Takes not much time and lot's of fun in sieges at open world and arena)...Main reason why in GV players online become low is a laggs..Cz devs of GV said many times they build a mmo for fun and they still do updates...and other things.
    if we look at PoE its not a fully mmorpg...and its not open world.
    in ESO... if you dont have needed chapters or items like "any ally any race" it not so eazy to play and it's provides you some advantage for that ppl who dont have those DLC's...
    More ppl's more view's btw!
    Just keep in mind that you can buy game time (like a plex you know) from other players.
    Almost all games that you listed still have or had same problem - big laggs cz they server's cant handle much people. imho thats why ppl leave it.
    But! Your point of view i respect. Cz you worry about ROG;)
  6. Weilan

    Weilan Bard

    Dec 13, 2019
    The reason why it has less players is because they nerfed archery and lots of players who wanted to play archers now feel like they were screwed over. Also there is a problem where a lot of "cheeser" players use macros or keybinds to block attacks so they can play the game easier without much effort and without learning to parry with directions like the game was intended to. AFAIK Gloria Victis was never intended to be F2P. All the games that I listed were intended to remain B2P for as long as they existed. Each and every one of them shares a couple of traits - they all expected more players and more revenue and more positive feedback, instead they all got negative or mixed feedback, not enough players and not enough revenue, as a last resort they turned to being F2P.

    What does PoE not being open world have to do with anything? It's still an online-only game and when you duel with other players it still matters what gear each player has and this is where the fact that the cash shop bringing no advantages comes in. If we follow your train of thought, if PoE had a P2W cash shop, even in its non-open world state where you play by yourself, people would still react to this in a very negative way and the game wouldn't be in the high regard that it's being held now, as well as it wouldn't be praised for being completely free and yet thriving with player and positive feedback.

    You don't need chapters in ESO?! There are some trials locked behind chapters and DLCs that you need to run to get the best gear out there. They don't release chapters each time so players to just keep playing the base game and not buy anything, you know. They release them first so they can make money and second so people buy them and play run the new trials for drops.
  7. wain

    wain Count Benefactor Emissary ROG Club

    Feb 28, 2019
    Nah, i knew only few people who uses macros at gloria and they are banned lmao, main reason that you and many other people think about others uses macros its big differents in ping! If you fight other player with lower ping (<30-50) and your ping around 100+ you have only small chance to win. And devs of gloria knows that problem.
    i spell it correct,you needed chapters in ESO, and yes if you dont buy chapters for real money and just exchange it from game currency it means that some other people buy it for real money so devs still got money's.
    So look again at ROG, B2P will be only before realese but after its will be (i think) P2P with plex system like in eve...
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2019
  8. claudiu

    claudiu III degree of vocation ROG Club

    Dec 21, 2019
    -I think you can have it P2P with a subscription as long as that subscription is 6-8$ a month. I dont see people paying more(WoW is charging 10$ a month and they own the mmorpg since internet was invented)
    -F2P with 10-12$ subscription for ingame bonuses(but not p2w) as more deposit store, montly skins rotation(LiF) and even some 20% or so xp bonus would be more preferable.

    Ideally i would see it as B2P for about 35$ and an option to buy skins for extra money for you guys.
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